Discussion:Osamu Shimomura

Nationalité

Shimomura est-il considéré comme américain (comme annoncé par le site officiel des nobels lors de la remise du prix) ou japonais (comme modifié sans source par plusieurs utilisateurs aujourd'hui) ? En l'absence de source autre que l'officiel Nobel Foundation, ne plus modifier, merci.--LPLT ^[discu] 8 octobre 2008 à 21:23 (CEST)

Oui il semble qu'il n'ait pas la nationalité américaine. Dans un autre lien apporté par トーキ (d · c · b), Shimomura dit lors d'une interview qu'il n'a pas demandé la nationalité (interview, (en japonais) avant-dernier paragraphe). Je pense qu'en ce cas il est inexact de le lister comme américain. Jotun (d) 9 octobre 2008 à 17:20 (CEST)

Le gros pb de cette interview est 1/ d'ou vient-elle 2/ la traduction par google est plus qu'approximative et je ne parle pas le japonais (de plus interview faite pour les japonais).... Bref, la réalité c'est que seul le site des Nobel à ce jour est fiable à mon avis et qu'il est préférable de le laisser comme cela, quitte à froisser des nationalismes. Il est évident que le site des Nobel est ultra-renseigné et au fait de ces pb et que l'annonce e tle maintien de la nationalité US sur son site n'est pas une erreur, je crois--LPLT ^[discu] 9 octobre 2008 à 17:25 (CEST)

Justement le site des Nobel le cite aussi en tant que "Japanese citizen" (je regarde la page citée partout ainsi que La page "Information for the Public" (pdf)). Je ne vois pas où est-ce qu'il est cité en tant qu'américain? Jotun (d) 9 octobre 2008 à 17:31 (CEST) Et les agences de presse internationales le citent aussi comme japonais : [1] [2] [3] [4]) Jotun (d) 9 octobre 2008 à 17:51 (CEST)

Si tu clicques sur le lien d'annonce ou sur Shimomura sur le premier lien que tu as mis, les 3 sont USA sous leurs images. Effectivement le pdf donne japanese... Celui-la je ne l'avais pas vu. Ils se contredisent--LPLT ^[discu] 9 octobre 2008 à 18:01 (CEST)

Ah oui, exact. Étrange tout ça (en bas de la page principale, ils disent japonais aussi)... Hmm.. Peut être faut-il attendre un peu, voir s'ils se décident dans un sens ou dans l'autre... Jotun (d) 9 octobre 2008 à 18:41 (CEST)

Sinon on peut toujours mettre "chimiste américano-japonais"..? Parce que d'un coté on sait qu'il a gardé la nationalité japonaise, mais de l'autre, bien que rien ne dise qu'il ait acquis la nationalité US (au contraire, d'après l'interview), au bout de 50 ans, je pense qu'on est de facto citoyen du pays, non? Jotun (d) 9 octobre 2008 à 18:43 (CEST)

Non dans tous les cas la nationalité se demande. Je suis d'avis de laisser comme cela en attendant, éventuellement de mettre les deux (premiere US avec le site web, seconde JAP avec le lien pdf) et basta...--LPLT ^[discu] 9 octobre 2008 à 18:47 (CEST)

Oui je pense que compte tenu des informations qu'on a, la meilleure solution est de mettre les deux pays. Et si le comité Nobel se décide dans un sens ou dans l'autre, on pourra alors suivre. Jotun (d) 9 octobre 2008 à 22:44 (CEST)

Please forgive me for writing in poor English. There are descriptions of the official web site concerned with this year's Japanese and Japanese-American Academy Award winners.

The Nobel Prize in Physics 2008

Yoichiro Nambu, US citizen. Born 1921 in Tokyo, Japan.

Makoto Kobayashi, Japanese citizen. Born 1944 in Nagoya, Japan.

Toshihide Maskawa, Japanese citizen. Born 1940.

The Nobel Prize in Chemistry 2008

Osamu Shimomura, Japanese citizen. Born 1928 in Kyoto, Japan.

Yoichiro Nambu's nationality is USA. But others are Japan. I think that this information is sufficient and reliable .トーキ (d) 9 octobre 2008 à 18:23 (CEST)

Once again, on the same page of the Nobel Price foundation, Shimomura is listed as USA (under his picture) and as a Japanese citizen on the pdf. This discripancy is a problem since he has lived more than 40 yrs in the States and probably acquired the US citizenship like most of the scientists in his case. I would like to flag him has a japanese citizen but the official website has still indicated USA and not JAP ? The other links you gave us are not a sufficient source, like the Nobel one is.--LPLT ^[discu] 9 octobre 2008 à 18:31 (CEST)

As LPLT says, this page is causing the thinking, as they list him as US scientific on it. So there's some contradiction even among the Nobel committee. Jotun (d) 9 octobre 2008 à 18:49 (CEST)

Who said that country's name which under his picture is his nationality? -- 123.198.15.148 (d) 10 octobre 2008 à 00:36 (CEST)

Associated Press,reuters and CNN told us Mr.Shimomura is Japanese. All those media told a lie? -- 123.198.15.148 (d) 10 octobre 2008 à 01:16 (CEST)

Press agency releases are frequently wrong since they copy-paste each other. The Nobel Foundation is much more trustable in this matter, but unfortunately gives two versions of citizenship : the press pdf release, on which all press agencies mentionned upper are based, and the website which clearly mentions USA under the picture. That's the reason of the actual discrepancy on the fr:WP showing both nationalities, up to the moment when this point will be clarified.--LPLT ^[discu] 10 octobre 2008 à 10:19 (CEST)

Again, who said name of country which under the picture is nationality? If you want to say so, you have to proof it.123.198.15.148 (d) 10 octobre 2008 à 10:49 (CEST)

Bold=shout. Don't shout please. The 800 Nobel prize recipients on the website have their nationality under their picture. Just check it out. Here comes the perfect example. Stop pushing now. Contact the Nobel Foundation and ask them to correct their website if wrong. Regards.--LPLT ^[discu] 10 octobre 2008 à 10:55 (CEST)

And I have to say it again. Who said so? Did you confirm that is nationality or not? If you didn't, that's must be your "ORIGINAL RESEARCH". Please, show me the proof if you can. Gimme source.

Perfect sample? hey, you must be kidding. It could be the place where they study, or where they live or whatever. I just want you to show me the proof. AP, reuters, CNN, and even Press release of Nobel Foudation, and HIS OWN INTERVIEW said Shimomura is Japanese.

I want you to JUST Answer my question. Did you confirm that name of country under the picture is nationality or not? -- 123.198.15.148 (d) 10 octobre 2008 à 12:31 (CEST)

You deny the link I gave you that's your problem. The AP or Reuters release are based on the pdf of the Nobel site which on other pages indicates US (I confirm that the country indicated below each of the pictures on the website are considered to be the nationality given by the foundation at the time of the award like here, here or here for this Chinese-born writer of French citizenship at the time of the award). I don't say he's american or japanese (he's probably japanese or both) I just refer to the Nobel Foundation and source it. The tone of your message and the displaying agressivity when you interact with people is not welcome here, and I don't want to loose time in sterile discussions. If the Nobel Foundation is wrong which is probably the case I can't do nothing, I just constat. Do what you want on the japanese WP, but stop shouting here. It's unacceptable. Period.--LPLT ^[discu] 10 octobre 2008 à 12:54 (CEST)

Finally you admit it. Well　done. Then from now on, you must swear that DO NOT revert about his nationality until you can proof he is an American.　OK?

And your link is totally meaningless. As I said it could be the place of whatever. If you want say it is nationality, you have to proove it. You can think so, but DO NOT bring your ORIGINAL RESEARCH here without proof. Merci Beaucoup :) -- 123.198.15.148 (d) 10 octobre 2008 à 13:18 (CEST)

What crap are you saying ? I admit nothing : do you read english sir ? WP is referenced by sources and I gave you the one of the Nobel Foundation with USA as nationality. It's nont my original interpretation it's an official release. You distorse my words. Nobels say USA on one hand (website), japanese on the other (pdf). As a result the page of Shimomura will display both versions, is it clear ? I'm a little be fed up with you you know...--LPLT ^[discu] 10 octobre 2008 à 13:24 (CEST)

Well, I have to say it again.
who said name of country which under the picture is nationality? Where can I find it? If you just think so, that's nice. Then get out of here.
There is no proof that "USA" or "Japan" is nationality. It could be the any place, where they study or where they live or where they stay. I have to admit that if there is "Nationality:USA" or written like that. But there is not. So, I ask you several time. Where can I find? I searched nobelprize.org, but I can't find anything. So let me show your proof not ORIGINAL RESEARCH,s'il vous plait:) -- 123.198.15.148 (d) 10 octobre 2008 à 14:28 (CEST)

Please settle down once. I hope for constructive discussions for solving the problem. I cannot think of the solution except for confirming to Nobel Foundation about the meaning of USA. However, I don't know whether it is possible. Do you know? トーキ (d) 10 octobre 2008 à 23:32 (CEST)

Well, I searched in past examples for the meaning of the country listed in the laureates page. And found one among the 2004 economic laureates. Look, they list Finn E. Kydland as "Norway", even if, according to his wikipedia page, he has been working and living in the US since 1978. So, it seems that the country listed here means nationality, not the country where the works have been done (that's what i thought also before i saw Kydland's page). So, as the Nobel committee is contradicting itself in different communications (listing japanese here and here, but US here), we can't chose one and discard the others. I think that if the Nobel committee finds out they mistake on the laureates page, they will update it to Japan. Yes? Jotun (d) 11 octobre 2008 à 11:13 (CEST)

Thank you for detailed explanations. I think that the example you presented is very important. I advocate the US and Japan as shimomura's nationality to be continued as long as the mark of the Web site of Nobel Foundation is not changed. トーキ (d) 11 octobre 2008 à 13:36 (CEST)

Yes, i also think that it's the best solution, given the information we have at this moment from the Nobel. Jotun (d) 11 octobre 2008 à 13:57 (CEST)

Fine with me since I did the flag-change 2 days ago. The bi-nationality is now correctly mentionned and referenced. Thanks Jotun, thanks トーキ, for calming down the situation, since the other IP was quite agressive on this page.--LPLT ^[discu] 11 octobre 2008 à 15:14 (CEST)

Thank you, too. And I'm sorry I overlooked your first proposal on this page. I appreciate your approach on my discussion page in English.トーキ (d) 11 octobre 2008 à 16:52 (CEST)