Gisbert K

Gisbert K

Le nom de Gisel est maintenant Gisbert K

---   Gisbert ツ(discuter) _{Illustrer Wikipédia!} 23 juin 2021 à 20:30 (CEST)

Clarinette basse

Dear Gisel, I don't understand why you added a second clarinet in the picture of 1840 Sax's bass clarinet. The aim of the gallery is to provide some historical pictures of the first bass clarinets at the beginning of XIXth century. What is the historical value of this second clarinet ? If any, I have to update the associated text. Otherwise, I prefer to keep the Sax's bass clarinet alone. We can complete this gallery with new pictures and also add a new gallery for modern bass clarinets if you have some stuff. Best regards Clarioio (discuter) 16 avril 2021 à 22:14 (CEST)

@ Clarioio

Dear Lionel, I thought the other clarinet was also a historical one. Can you tell me more about it ?

The original file "Clarinette basse, Adolphe Sax, 184809102 ULEI M0005300.jpg" still exists. However, I have now produced a different version: "Clarinette basse, Adolphe Sax, 1848.jpg". You can choose which one you want to have in the article.

What do you think of my editing of Tara Bouman's photo?

Best regards --Gisel (discuter) 17 avril 2021 à 00:21 (CEST) (Gisbert)

Dear Gisel, I've no idea of historical interest of the second bass clarinet. Also I have a preference to keep the Sax's bass clarinet alone as you lastly edited. Your editing of Tara Bouman's photo is better than the basic one. Nevertheless the musician body hides a part and the bell of the instrument. Ideally a photo with the instrument in front of the artist should be better according to me. Best regards,

Clarioio (discuter) 17 avril 2021 à 19:01 (CEST)

We now have 2 photos: the dark Tara Bouman.jpg -> and the light Tara Bouman (2).jpg -> , where only the upper part is visible. --Gisel (discuter) 18 avril 2021 à 08:35 (CEST)

I prefer the new framing of this photo (without the bell). Many thanks. Best Regards. PS: I added the photo gallery of an old Italian bass clarinet with interesting bell and neck. Clarioio (discuter) 18 avril 2021 à 12:45 (CEST)

Johann Christoph Vogel

Dear Gisel, Do you know and confirm that Johann Christoph Vogel was a clarinetist as mentionned on english WP (list of clarinetists)? I've no reference about that (He composed 6 concertos for clarinet and was also hornist. At this date, numerous musicians plays several instruments as clarinet & horn ), BR, Clarioio (discuter) 3 juin 2021 à 14:32 (CEST)

Dear Lionel, I don´t know Vogel and I can not find him in the List of clarinetists, but you can read something about him here: Johann Christoph Vogel and hear some of his compositions on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=johann+christoph+vogel+ . --Gisel (discuter) 3 juin 2021 à 18:24 (CEST)

Thank you for your answer and provided details. I will continue to consider than Johann Christoph Vogel is not a clarinetist. BR, --Clarioio (discuter) 3 juin 2021 à 22:29 (CEST)

clarinette ancienne

Bonjour Gisbert,
I'm writing a new page for historical clarinets and repliques, and I'm looking for some pictures of 2-3-4..keys old clarinets.
Wikimedia commons doesn't possess a great choice of clarinette ancienne. Do you know if it exists a such page on german WP?
Sincerely yours,
--Clarioio (discuter) 16 septembre 2021 à 23:40 (CEST)

Good morning Lionel, I have now put all the pictures of historical clarinets I found into the category "Historical clarinets and replicas", see here:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:MediaSearch&search=historical+clarinets&go=page&type=image

+ https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Historical_clarinets_and_replicas

Maybe you will find some suitable pictures there.

I have also asked Jochen Seggelke for pictures of clarinets with 2 - 4 keys.

Sincerely yours ---   Gisbert ツ(discuter) _{Illustrer Wikipédia!} 17 septembre 2021 à 09:29 (CEST)

système breveté Schmidt-Kolbe

Hello Gisbert, I wrote a page on Rudolf Gall who played on a Schmidt-Kolbe system clarinet. Please feel free to share information on this player and on this keying system. I fear that my german is a little bit poor to understand this mechanism BR, Lionel Clarioio (discuter) 26 novembre 2021 à 19:33 (CET)

Hello Lionel,

From what I have heard, the clarinet that is unfortunately no longer made today was primarily the result of mathematical calculations of the frequencies for the individual notes instead of the principle of trial & error, with the result of a significantly higher tuning accuracy compared to all other clarinets:

This success was achieved by the following measures:

1. by choosing the king-grenadilla-wood, which was little known in Europe at that time (1908), and with a greater wall thickness of the body.

2. an inner bore of 15.5 mm, which was sealed with a thin layer of varnish

3. an optimal arrangement of the tone holes, which were partly modified by division

4. the upper joint was much longer than Oehler's, the lower joint shorter. In addition, the cone at the end of the lower joint is wider than on Oehler's.

5. the same barrel was used for Bb and A clarinets.

6. Schmidt developed a completely new cylindrical mouthpiece that could only be played on these clarinets, but also had to be played on them.

7. The bell has more volume than Oehler's and is thinner-walled.

Furthermore, additional mechanisms made the sound of the problem notes such as E3, B4-flat (partly also A4), and B4 natural. In detail.

1. the correct tuning of the low E4 was achieved by a simple hole at the beginning of the bell without the bell mechanism of the Oehler clarinet, the whole construction resulted in a tuning and sonorous sounding E4 and at the same time a tuning and free sounding B3.

2. the cover of the middle tone hole of the lower part of the Oehler clarinet was moved to the upper tone hole.

3. the key for G5 # was split.

4. Fritz Wurlitzer added a fork mechanism for F4. This tone could be played just like the B5 flat  by closing the upper and lower tone holes on the upper joint while the middle one remained open. However, W. also offered this mechanism for the Oehler clarinets.

5. The tone hole for B4-flat  and the overblow hole are usually identical. The Schmidt-Kolbe clarinet used two separate tone holes in a complicated mechanism, whereby the octave was automatically adjusted.

I will send you photos by e-mail which I have edited and which show these mechanical changes compared to the Oehler clarinet.

Rating

It seems that the clarinet made first by Kolbe, later by Fritz Wurlitzer, was the best ever made, the best in terms of tuning accuracy, sound of all notes and ease of response. In the article by Dieter Kühr it says :

"My first personal impression of Kolbe, Altenburg was the A clarinet. Unforgettable to me is the feeling of the free flow of the breath: the long B4 as free as the empty G4, that is, like stepping into a room that allows the summer air of the garden to circulate unhindered through the open windows and doors. This was a complete contrast to my Uebel clarinets from the 60s. Added to this was the almost weightlessness and the low E3, which seemed to be from a basset horn. I was speechless with excitement. Geuser only said "Yes, yes he noticed it right away".

Rudolf Gall -->> http://resources.huygens.knaw.nl/retroboeken/persoonlijkheden/#source=1&page=502&view=imagePane

-   Gisbert ツ(discuter) _{Illustrer Wikipédia!} 27 novembre 2021 à 16:58 (CET)

@Clarioio

Schmidt-Kolbe-Klarinette -->> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griffsysteme_Klarinette#Historische_Variante_der_deutschen_Klarinette:_die_Schmidt-Kolbe-Klarinette

---   Gisbert ツ(discuter) _{Illustrer Wikipédia!} 29 novembre 2021 à 11:24 (CET)

Bonjour Gisbert,
Many thanks for the long and detailed answer about this clarinet model. It appears that many of these old upgrades proposed by Schmidt & Kolbe are no more proposed by the main clarinet factories, even for top models (Muse by Selmer, BCXXI by BC). Clarioio (discuter) 30 novembre 2021 à 19:09 (CET)

This clarinet is not easy to make. I think Fritz Wurlitzer was the last clarinet maker who had the know-how.

When Herbert Wurlitzer founded a clarinet manufactury in 1959 after fleeing to the Federal Republic of Germany, he made the decision to build only clarinets according to the Oehler system and the Reform_Boehm system and not Schmidt-Kolbe clarinets, which his father was still making at that time, I think. Too complicated, heavier than the other clarinets and too expensive.

What´s about your e-mail-address? I wont to send you same pictures. -   Gisbert ツ(discuter) _{Illustrer Wikipédia!} 30 novembre 2021 à 19:55 (CET)

13-key Buffet et Cie clarinet in MET collection

Bonjour Gisbert K , I found this [picture] of a genuine 13-key Buffet et Cie clarinet in the MET collection. Do you think it's possible to catch it for WP as the picture is in the public domain ? Let's note there are more than 200.000 files from MET in Wikicommons. Best Regards Clarioio (discuter) 13 avril 2022 à 09:06 (CEST)

File:BC Clar. A 1860.jpg

-   Gisbert ツ(discuter) _{Illustrer Wikipédia!} 13 avril 2022 à 10:05 (CEST) |center

Many thanks for the picture. I wrote the opposite of what I thought, it 's one of the first genuine système Boehm clarinet, not a 13—key système clarinet.

Clarioio (discuter) 13 avril 2022 à 19:05 (CEST)

Request for advice to keep picture details

Bonjour Gisbert K , I noted you added the following picture in the page barillet (clarinette) :

I would like to know how you proceed to just keep details from a full picture (best way) and publish them. I thought it existed a mean to add alternative pictures (detail#1, detail #2... ) in the root wiki commons page, but I fail. In this case, I just need the joined barrel-mouthpiece of the first clarinets in order to illustrate the article about barillet (clarinette). Thank you in advance for the answer. BR, Clarioio (discuter) 14 avril 2022 à 12:21 (CEST)

Good evening Lionel, I make details or sections of a photo with the free programme "IrfanView". First I mark the parts of the photo that I want, e.g. the barrel of a clarinet, then I free the marked part of the photo and save it.

I have compiled the sequence of the individual steps for you in a serie of photos. You can find them here: https://sites.google.com/view/klarinetten/startseite

Please scroll down until the text "Lionel" appears.

PS: If you want, you can use the programme to draw a frame in any colour around the image and much more.

-   Gisbert ツ(discuter) _{Illustrer Wikipédia!} 14 avril 2022 à 20:05 (CEST)

Thank you for the how-to-do explanations. My unclear question was more centered onto wikicommons use : after you created a detailed picture from a wikicommons primary picture, do you create a new wikicommons page ? Or is it possible to link the secondary picture inside the primary picture page? Clarioio (discuter) 14 avril 2022 à 20:22 (CEST)

Look here:

• 
• 
• 
• 

1. complete photo -->> File:Bassettklar. A dt. mit Liebesfuß Gerold.jpg

detail only -->> File:Gerold Bassett Unterteile.jpg

2. complete photo -->> File:Clarinet (AM 1998.60.273-1).jpg

complete photo + details -->> File:Clarinet (AM 1998.60.273-1-3).jpg

It is always a new file.

-   Gisbert ツ(discuter) _{Illustrer Wikipédia!} 14 avril 2022 à 21:27 (CEST)

OK, that's clear. Clarioio (discuter) 14 avril 2022 à 23:30 (CEST)

Tourillon (organologie)

Bonjour Gisbert K ,
I'm looking for the german name for the mechanical keying fixed part called tourillon (organologie) in French langage (or in (en) key post). Thank you in advance for the answer.
BR, Clarioio (discuter) 23 août 2022 à 14:46 (CEST)

If you mean this, the answer is: "Säulchen" (small pillars) -   Gisbert ツ(discuter) _{Illustrer Wikipédia!} 23 août 2022 à 16:41 (CEST)

Many thanks, I will add this term to the page. Good evening. Clarioio (discuter) 23 août 2022 à 19:14 (CEST)

And the picture, 😉... Clarioio (discuter) 23 août 2022 à 19:31 (CEST)

Crochet à ressort

Bonjour Gisbert K ,
I'm looking for a picture of a good quality 《crochet à ressort》. I took a picture of mine (Chinese model, bad finition, too tall for clarinets).
Thank you in avance. Lionel Clarioio (discuter) 30 septembre 2022 à 15:25 (CEST)

Bonsoir Clarioio ,

Look at the article! I made 2 new pictures. And I have improved your photo. If you are not satisfied, remove them!

-   Gisbert ツ(discuter) _{Illustrer Wikipédia!} 3 octobre 2022 à 22:12 (CEST)

That's perfect! Many thanks for your help. BR, Clarioio (discuter) 4 octobre 2022 à 01:40 (CEST)

Repose-pouce

Bonjour Gisbert K , In resizing the Adolf Sax's saxophone picture, only the ring for the cordon has been kept , the repose-pouce is lower on the body and out of the pic. BR, Clarioio (discuter) 23 novembre 2022 à 18:47 (CET)

You're right Lionel, I've uploaded another cut-out where the thumb holder is clearly visible.

Do you like the gallery now or would you change anything else?

As you may have seen, I have translated your article into German and English. After that, my friend Grimes2 (he is German, but only writes in the English WP) went to a lot of trouble to find new sources. Maybe you can include some of them in your article, as I will do with the German article.

Grimes2 has removed your sources. He says: Blogs as sources are not welcome in the English Wikipedia, WP:USERGENERATED (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources#User-:generated_content). How is it in the French WP?

-   Gisbert ツ(discuter) _{Illustrer Wikipédia!} 23 novembre 2022 à 20:18 (CET)

Many thanks to have fixed the Sax's pic issue. About the gallery, you are free to act as you want; about my personal preferences, I like to find pictures close from the chapter text and consult other pictures in a gallery to illustrate the complexity of a topic.

It's an interesting news to learn that this page has been translated on german an english WP.

In the french WP, we have also some rules about reliable sources; nevertheless for the Musical domain, there are some flexibilities to use other sources than academic and native language sources because they are rare. For this special WP page about a part of a musical instrument, we can use some exceptions, but german or british guys are free to apply their own rules. On my side, I prefer to use good web pages as those ones from M. Touroude (well known expert in France and around the World) than bad sources compliant with strict WP 《rules》. I will have a look on the new sources and maybe I will include some of them in the french WP.

BR, Clarioio (discuter) 23 novembre 2022 à 23:21 (CET)

"I like to find pictures close from the chapter text." I agree, but then the article has to be long enough. -   Gisbert ツ(discuter) _{Illustrer Wikipédia!} 24 novembre 2022 à 09:05 (CET)

Problème affichage clé (organologie)

Bonjour Gisbert K
Your last modification in the page clé (organologie) causes a bad display of the first title viewed as vertical and displays multiple empty lines before the picture gallery on a mobile screen.

Please have a look on Aide:Place des images , Aide:Galerie according to french WP uses.

Thank you in advance to solve the display issue.

BR, Clarioio (discuter) 9 février 2023 à 08:05 (CET)

I had entered a line above the first gallery with 12 times "br/" to move the gallery closer to the following pictures. I have now deleted this line again. Now there is no empty space in the mobile version.

-   Gisbert ツ(discuter) _{Illustrer Wikipédia!} 9 février 2023 à 10:06 (CET)

Looking for pictures to illustrate Système Schmidt-Kolbe

Bonjour Gisbert K , I'm working on a french translation of your work about Système Schmidt-Kolbe. Would you have some pictures to illustrate this page (complete clarinet, details)? According to some sources, Ernst Schmidt invented also the reformed Boehm system. Do you confirm this information? BR, Clarioio (discuter) 14 mars 2023 à 18:46 (CET)

1. Pictures. I can only look in the internet.

2. Reform Boehm clarinet. Enrico Weller wrote:

Rohrblatt 1995

Page 109

“At the same time (1895), he (Schmidt) was working on improvements to this model (a Boehm clarinet), which led to the "Reform Boehm clarinet", a Boehm-instrument designed according to scientific and acoustical standards, which can be equipped with rollers on the keys for the right little finger (C and E-flat fingerings).”

Page 110

"From today's perspective, the work on the Boehm system, which also included basset horns and bass clarinets, remains of lasting effect. Initially offered as "Schmidt Reform Boehm clarinets" because of Schmidt's impulses, since the 1950s they have also been called "Wurlitzer Reform Boehm clarinets" because of the improvements achieved by Fritz and Herbert Wurlitzer in collaboration with qualified Boehm clarinettists." -   Gisbert ツ(discuter) _{Illustrer Wikipédia!} 14 mars 2023 à 22:41 (CET)

Thank you for the answer and Congratulations for your last Barnstar. Clarioio (discuter) 15 mars 2023 à 18:23 (CET)

Fyi, there is a typo in German WP for Enrico Weller, author of many references: its first name is badly written Enico Weller. Clarioio (discuter) 15 mars 2023 à 19:04 (CET)

Thankyou. -   Gisbert ツ(discuter) _{Illustrer Wikipédia!} 15 mars 2023 à 22:26 (CET)

Récompenses

Gisbert K, Voici ces lauriers pour tes nombreux apports relatifs à la clarinette, son répertoire, aux clarinettistes et aux droits obtenus sur de nombreuses images de la part des facteurs de clarinettes. Cordialement, Clarioio (discuter) 7 avril 2024 à 19:03 (CEST) Un grand merci ! Gisbert

Theodor Lotz

Bonjour Gisbert K , I need your help because my knowledge of the german/ austrich/bohemian history is too low. I wrote a short page on Theodor Lotz but I fear I made some errors about his place of birth : I'm not certain about Kirchheim (Hesse). If you have a sure answer, may you correct me ? Thank you in advance. Clarioio (discuter) 17 juillet 2024 à 22:16 (CEST)

Bonjour Clarioio , I think it's great that you've written an article about Theodor Lotz. I have always missed this article. For the place of birth and the father's profession, see here:

Oesterreichisches Musiklexikon online --> > https://www.musiklexikon.ac.at/ml/musik_L/Lotz_Theodor.xml

"Theodor Lotz * 21.2.1746 Kirchheim (/D), † 26.6.1792  (Wien IX). Klarinettist, Fagottist, Bratschist, Holzblasinstrumentenmacher. Sohn eines Kunstdrechslers, erhielt vermutlich in seinem Heimatort eine musikalische Ausbildung, möglicherweise von Johann Christoph Ender."

Sohn eines Kunstdrechslers = The son of an art turner = Fils d'un tourneur d'art

According to this source, the father was ‘Kunstdrechsler’, not Inspector of Public Works for the Principality of Nassau-Weilburg and town councillor -   Gisbert ツ(discuter) _{Illustrer Wikipédia!} 17 juillet 2024 à 23:39 (CEST)

Bonjour Gisbert K ,

Thank you for the answer and the proposed article. I will correct the errors you detected.

It's difficult to catch the words when a text is written in "gothic german" ; I tried to translate the Anton Stadler's concert announcement in Rida. Please have a look on Anton Stadler#Gallerie and correct the faults. Clarioio (discuter) 23 juillet 2024 à 07:55 (CEST)

Thank you again for the corrections brought in the Anton Stadler's concert announcement in Rida.

"Ein Sinfonie Saz" or "Ein Sinfoniesaz" appear to me unclear. These expressions were used in the past => I translate in french par "symphonie-ouverture" with doubt. Clarioio (discuter) 24 juillet 2024 à 03:44 (CEST)

For your translation: Saz = Satz = movement (not ouverture), and here the text in modern German:

Konzertanzeige

Morgen Dienstag, den 21. März, wird Herr Stadler, Kaiserlich-Königlicher Kammermusiker, mit hoher obrigkeitlicher Bewilligung im hiesigen Schauspielhaus, mit gütiger Hilfe der musikalischen Gesellschaft sein drittes und letztes Konzert geben, in dem er sich mit verschiedenen Stücken auf dem Bassetthorn hören lassen wird.

Dieses Instrument ist von derselben Beschaffenheit wie seine Inventions-Klarinette, es hat einen Umfang von vier Oktaven und drei halbe Töne mehr in der Tiefe, als das sonst gewöhnliche Bassetthorn.

Stücke sind folgende:

Erster Teil

Große Sinfonie von Haydn. Konzert für das Bassetthorn, gespielt von Herrn Stadler, Arie gesungen von Madame Lange.

Zweiter Teil

Ein Sinfonie-Satz von Pleyel. Sieben Variationen für das Bassetthorn, gespielt von Herrn Stadler. Rondo aus La Clemenza di Tito von Mozart, gesungen von Herrn Arnold, und mit zwei Bassetthörnern begleitet von Herrn Stadler und seinem Schüler Maske.

Dritter Teil

Ein kurzer Sinfonie-Satz.

Einige Stücke von Mozart für drei Bassetthörner, gespielt von den Herren Stadler, Maske und Bahl; dann verschiedene Arien, Duette und Terzette aus den bekanntesten und beliebtesten Operetten, Cosa Raca, l'albore di Dianna Tigaco, Don Giovanni etc. etc., ebenfalls mit drei Bassetthörnern.

Ein Sinfonie-Satz

Der Anfang ist präzise um halb sechs Uhr. Eintrittskarten sind zu den gewöhnlichen Opernpreisen bei dem Theaterkassierer Herrn Hettich und nachher am Eingang zu haben.-   Gisbert ツ(discuter) _{Illustrer Wikipédia!} 24 juillet 2024 à 09:51 (CEST)

Translation: -   Gisbert ツ(discuter) _{Illustrer Wikipédia!} 25 juillet 2024 à 11:25 (CEST)

Thank you for your help and the picture Clarioio (discuter) 26 juillet 2024 à 08:11 (CEST)