Discussion:Heavenly voices

Neutralité de la page

Cette page a fait l'objet de l'apposition d'un bandeau de non-neutralité, les discussions visant au consensus se trouvent sur Discuter:Heavenly voices/Neutralité. Sand 27 novembre 2005 à 17:25 (CET)

All groups in the article are Neoclassical. Heavenly Voices is a marketing term, not a genre term. --87.122.2.16 17 octobre 2007 à 19:41 (CEST)

Specification to all the english speaking users that might be tempted to contest the title and argue the same as above. Heavenly Voices is basically a marketing term, true- or to be more precise the name of a compilation series. I can understand that it could be shocking to you, because I'm aware this is not the way things are in the english use. But there are cultural differences you probably ignore between English speaking countries and French speaking countries about this issue. The fact is the term "heavenly voice" has been frequently used by musical press in France to encompass these musics - not just neoclassical new wave, but any atmospheric music featuring ethereal voices. And now it has become a common generic term in here, no matter its origins, no matter other countries do not use this term. Anyway, keep in mind stylistic categorisations and names are just pigeonholes, not an exact science. Fred Hunter (discuter) 24 août 2015 à 17:17 (CEST)

Not a genre ...

... Heavenly Voices was always a marketing term for a compilation series. Most of the Heavenly Voices compilations contain many different genres – from Neoclassical music to Neofolk, from Ethereal Goth to Dreampop and Alternative Rock... And even Symphonic Metal on Heavenly Voices Part V.

This means that Ethereal Goth/Ethereal Wave (the content of this article) is not identical to Heavenly Voices.

Thanks for your commentsǃ But now could you please care to take a few seconds and read carefully the note for english speaking viewers about this issue in the previous discussion section. This issue has already been adressed. And it's been anticipated for years that other people like you would object exactly what you're objecting now. I understand and know exactly what you mean. So please take the time to read what has already been said before. Thanks in advance.Fred Hunter (discuter) 23 septembre 2017 à 11:41 (CEST)

Goth éthéré should be the correct lemma, applied to bands such as Cocteau Twins, Dead Can Dance and This Mortal Coil. — Le message qui précède, non signé, a été déposé par RivetHeadCulture (discuter), le 8 mars 2018 à 00:16 (CET)

Please pay attention to my previous comment. Also note that in wikipedia, we do not work according to what "should be " correct in their view, we report the current practices and uses of the terms. It is a fact in french press, the used is "heavenly voice" not "goth étheré" the latter is not an official term used in press. I know "ethereal goth" is sometimes used in english speaking countries, but its translation is rarely used as an curent term in France as far as I can read in various papers. Now if you have sources to support that such a term "Goth éthéré"" is widespread in France to refer to it, then I'll be happy to include it. But keep in mind wikipedia does not work with original research ("travail inédit"). We work with sources, not personal opinions. So it does not matter what "should be correct" in your view, we just report the fact that this word is in common use. Just because a term is widespread in your geographical aera does not mean it is relevant in another cultural aera. Please consider cultural contexts.Fred Hunter (discuter)

https://www.amazon.fr/BATCAVE-MEMORIES-rencontres-gothique-parisien/dp/2357791136

"Ensuite, on a le goth médiéval et ce que les anglais appellent goth éthéré (ethereal goth) ... Les groupes d'éthéré les plus représentatifs et précurseurs sont Dead Can Dance, Cocteau Twins et This Mortal Coil."

Btw: Check the infobox. Heavy metal is not an origin of Heavenly Voices. Both terms may start with "HEAV..." but they have nothing to do with each other. — Le message qui précède, non signé, a été déposé par RivetHeadCulture (discuter), le 10 mars 2018 à 14:36 (CET)

Dear Rivethead, thanks for bringing this book to my attention. I'll be back to it but first I'd like to ask you this questionː What's wrong with the infobox? Where did you see the term "heavy metal" mentionned? Of course, the genre has nothing to do with heavy metal. What's that got to do with anything? Do you really think that we confuse the styles as well as the words heavenly (celeste) and heavy (lourd)? editː ok, I saw your edit. I understand better. I did not see it because the link was hidden.

Now about your quote, why did you cite a shortened quotation of the passage with a link to Amazon without mentionning the number of the page? You thought I would not verify it? Why did you retract the (inconvenient?) part of the quote mentioning also the the term "heavenly voices" about this genre which actually confirms what I already said in the first place. Here's a tip for you, if you want to indicate that a quote is shortened, you have to use this ː"[...], not just this "...". Otherwise it feels like you want to hide something. The latter could have been part of the quote.

Whatever... Anyway, I certainly can use this source but if you think it's enough to change the title of the article, I'm afraid you'll be disapointed. Because the passage just says "english people do use the term" and this idea is already mentionned in the article in more precise terms (media anglosaxons).I actually suspect that the author of the said book just read this article before writing this particular passage (like it's often the case with authors for the éditions Camions blanc who generally recycle what they find on the internet). It would be quite ironic that you cite this book to contest the content of it). Indeed if you read carefully the article, not just the title, you'll notice that there's this passageː

"Dans les médias anglophones, en revanche, on emploie très peu le terme Heavenly voices pour décrire le genre de musique, mais plutôt ethereal darkwave, ethereal goth ou simplement ethereal19,. De nombreux albums de Cocteau Twins/This Mortal Coil sont décrits comme « ethereal » au milieu des années 1980

Thanks for your attention Fred Hunter (discuter)